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Sporting Dogs and Retriever Training, the Wild Rose Way

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 Posted 7/19/2012 10:18:38 PM
 

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This book came out today.  Its supposed to be a guide to training a "Gentlemans" gun dog without force fetch or E collars.  I very low pressure approach.  Just wondering what everyone thought of this or if anyone was planning on getting the book.  Would be interested to hear some opinions on it.

A bad day in the blind beats a good day at work.
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 Posted 7/20/2012 1:59:04 PM
 

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I'll stick with Lardy's stuff.  You end up with a much more advanced trained retriever IMO.
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 Posted 7/22/2012 8:52:53 PM
 

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So if I write a book about training a retriever using force fetch and/or e-collars would the title have to be "Training A Gun Dog For Scoundrels"? I eschew his BS. 


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 Posted 7/26/2012 3:39:15 PM
 

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I don't think it's anything you haven't heard before. Probably the same as the video that has been out for some time. Just a different way of training. I believe the "Gentleman" monicker is a play on the english angle and the perceived manner they train/hunt their dogs. More of a slogan than anything else. 

www.blackwatersportsman.com
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 Posted 8/25/2012 9:32:06 PM
 

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I run an American Lab and will continue to train him the American way, hard. My uncle has an English lab, won't use the ecollar, and just won't be hard on the dog when needed. Needless to say I have a rock solid duck and Pheasant dog with a Senior title and he just yells at his dog as it does whatever it wants. 

I say go "American" in labs and training technique.

Make 'em dead!
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 Posted 8/27/2012 7:09:26 AM
 

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I have an english lab that is the opposite of the one your uncle has. Never used an ecollar (used one on my other dogs), and he is solid. I'm an outfitter hunting the eastern shore of Maryland so maybe the high number of retrieves shaped him. I do believe there is a lot to selective breeding (perhaps not as easy as just saying american vs english is the only thing important) but I also think you're always prone to getting a knucklehead dog from any stock. I'm just glad how hard he works and don't think much about the american vs english angle. I'm glad I didn't screw him up :D Hope your uncle gets his dog straight.  

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 Posted 9/3/2012 5:03:57 PM
 

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I have an American Black lab he is 9 months today never had a collar and always willing to be worked hard since he was 6 weeks and I have a video of him retriving buffle heads to hand. I have never had to force anything upon him. I believe in working a dog hard however I dont believe that the dog should be scared to make a mistake meaning I dont believe in the collars. I know if had to where one as a kid I wouldnt have made it to 19 cause my dad wouldve fried me instead he just smaked his hand firmly very firmly on my rear. There has been plenty of times where he has mad a mistake and when I yell at him he knows he did wrong and wants to make it right. If I give him the same situation he messed up on the first time the second it is perfect. Today was his first hunt that we didnt get skunked he retrived his dove and has been begging me to get back out since then. Everyone has their dog of their lifetime and I have mine now.

         

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 Posted 9/3/2012 10:17:26 PM
 

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SkYE BUSTERS (9/3/2012)
I have an American Black lab he is 9 months today never had a collar and always willing to be worked hard since he was 6 weeks and I have a video of him retriving buffle heads to hand. I have never had to force anything upon him. I believe in working a dog hard however I dont believe that the dog should be scared to make a mistake meaning I dont believe in the collars. I know if had to where one as a kid I wouldnt have made it to 19 cause my dad wouldve fried me instead he just smaked his hand firmly very firmly on my rear. There has been plenty of times where he has mad a mistake and when I yell at him he knows he did wrong and wants to make it right. If I give him the same situation he messed up on the first time the second it is perfect. Today was his first hunt that we didnt get skunked he retrived his dove and has been begging me to get back out since then. Everyone has their dog of their lifetime and I have mine now.
It's awesome when you have your dog of a lifetime.  Enjoy him because the time goes fast.

Are you following the Wildrose Way of training then?  Please do a search about the meaning of Force Fetch, no it will not be in Wildrose.  It has very little to do with force.  BTW, your dads hand was "force", you're yelling at the dog is "force".  The two are only different in application principle.  The E Collar would not be a wise investment in your hands at this point in time.  From what you have posted, you don't understand the use of it.  There is more to the collar as there is with FF as well.  I'm not starting an argument, just pointing out to all who might read your post that there is more to it.

Enjoy your pup and his first hunting season, it goes by fast.  Happy Hunting!
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 Posted 9/4/2012 4:17:05 PM
 

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SkYE BUSTERS (9/3/2012)
I have an American Black lab he is 9 months today never had a collar and always willing to be worked hard since he was 6 weeks and I have a video of him retriving buffle heads to hand. I have never had to force anything upon him. I believe in working a dog hard however I dont believe that the dog should be scared to make a mistake meaning I dont believe in the collars. I know if had to where one as a kid I wouldnt have made it to 19 cause my dad wouldve fried me instead he just smaked his hand firmly very firmly on my rear. There has been plenty of times where he has mad a mistake and when I yell at him he knows he did wrong and wants to make it right. If I give him the same situation he messed up on the first time the second it is perfect. Today was his first hunt that we didnt get skunked he retrived his dove and has been begging me to get back out since then. Everyone has their dog of their lifetime and I have mine now.
It's  posts like this that give the impression that the use of e-collars are in-humane when it is the exact opposite that is true. I would be willing to bet that you have never spent time with a successful dog trainer? I am pretty sure I speak for most e-collar trainers when I say I resent that you accuse e-collar trainers of frying their dogs. Spend some time with a local retriever club and open your eyes. Watch these dogs with tons of drive and ask yourself, why did these successful people waste the time to force train their dogs? 


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 Posted 9/4/2012 5:03:34 PM
 

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SkYE BUSTERS (9/3/2012)
I have an American Black lab he is 9 months today never had a collar and always willing to be worked hard since he was 6 weeks and I have a video of him retriving buffle heads to hand. I have never had to force anything upon him. I believe in working a dog hard however I dont believe that the dog should be scared to make a mistake meaning I dont believe in the collars. I know if had to where one as a kid I wouldnt have made it to 19 cause my dad wouldve fried me instead he just smaked his hand firmly very firmly on my rear. There has been plenty of times where he has mad a mistake and when I yell at him he knows he did wrong and wants to make it right. If I give him the same situation he messed up on the first time the second it is perfect. Today was his first hunt that we didnt get skunked he retrived his dove and has been begging me to get back out since then. Everyone has their dog of their lifetime and I have mine now.


 I agree with the last 2 posters. You're young and are making statements about a level and style of training you simply don't understand. It's funny you mention your dad and the use of a collar. If he had a temper, you are exactly right that he shouldn't have a collar and the same idea goes with a guy training a dog. Temper and e-collars are a bad combo. And based on your use of the word "fried" I'm guessing either he has a temper or you have seen guys with dogs who didn't know how to use a collar.

Today's collars are much better than those found 20-30 yrs ago as are the training programs. If done right, there is no "frying" going on. In fact, I have corrected my dog in obedience settings with people around and they didn't even know I did anything. If set correctly, I could nick my dog with her standing right next to you and you wouldn't even know it. When I first got into dogs, I saw guys hold down the button and watch their dogs spin in circles. Most of those guys either changed their ways or quit the game as the guys who went with modern training methods were beating them at trials every weekend.  
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